Organic or Acquired Growth? with Stephen Chow

In this week's Real Estate: Real Success Podcast, Chiyoko Kakino has an in-depth conversation with Stephen Chow, the Owner/Broker of CENTURY 21 Atria Realty Inc. Brokerage in Toronto, ON. He shares his journey to success and some of the important decisions he has made to accelerate his market share. Listen now to learn his tips on organic growth versus acquisitions and how both have helped him take his company from a start-up brokerage to being one of the 4th largest offices by production in the Global21 rankings.

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Transcript

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Welcome to the Real State. Real success podcast, where we talk about key business, successes, and Lessons Learned. Along the way in the hopes of inspired brokerage owners and managers to find new ways of doing business. I'm chiyoko cookie dough. And in this episode, we are going to talk about the opportunity to build your brokerage organically and through acquisition. So I am super lucky to be joined by Stephen Chow. Not only is he a friend of mine, but he is the broker owner of century. Any Atria headquartered in Toronto, Ontario. Stephen? Thank you so much for being with us today Giacomo. Hi everybody. I'm I thank you for the invite. Excellent. So Steve, and I wanted to talk. I want to start off by giving our listeners a little bit about your background. So you started in real estate in 1996 and 97 and you were quite the productive realtor. I understand at that time, in 2004. You decided to start your own brokerage with Century 21. And when you started it, it was basically yourself and your support staff, of course, and you continue to sell real estate to until 2012 / 2013, when you realize, you needed to make a big decision. But before we talk about, what that big decision was, I have to ask. Why did you start your own brokerage? Like, what were you thinking at that time? Oh, that's a very quick question. Honestly, I didn't know what I was thinking. I was in my mid-twenties. I was a very, very successful Realtors and I thought I do everything and I'm like, you know what? I don't need to work for someone. I like to be my own boss. So I'm like, you know what? Let me go open a company and be my own boss and being a typical old a lot of older sisters were when they first start up with I don't have to pay fees to my boss. It was never my intention to grow this company, which really just for hey, I continue this hour with a cup of tea. Numbers and own a company for myself. That was the intention to start off with, right. So, at a young age, you are on tan entrepreneurs. That's great. So, that was 2004, when you decided to open your own brokerage. Let's fast forward now to 2012, 2013, which was really a turning point for you. Can you tell us why it was such an important time in your career? By the trauma was a in 2012. I was a really top producer in. Century, 21 family are and even in Toronto. I think at the peak of tour 2012. I was ranked number 11 in the country by production. So I would very, very productive. But I started to have agents throughout the years of few years of having a brokerage you start to have your friend, your buddy saying, even can I join your company? So we started having people to join and then all of a sudden you have to have a little bit more overhead, right? You have to hire a live a couple more support staff. The front desk, go to answer calls, but I was at the point that, you know what, I don't know how to run a brokerage. I was very, very successful and solid. So got two points that I have to decide that. Do why I wanted the owner or do I want to best salesperson because the company was not doing well, right. I didn't know how to operate company, and it was like a decision. What should I do in my life? So around 2012. I kind of took a few months to evaluate My Old Situation financially and and the business side as well and say, you know what? Maybe I should give it a try to be a full-time owner, right? It's like the company's down. Eight years into it, but it was really not a big brokerage. Maybe I should give a try and learn how to be a real estate broker owner. Is that think it's different hats, right? Like I actually never worked in another job in my life. I got my license when I was like in University. So I always was self-employed doing the sense that, you know, what? How do I become an owner? There's really no, obviously, there's no real manual to learn. But great from head office out there teaching me, but I think everything is you have to learn on your own. You have to learn on the fly. So I'm like, you know what? Let me see. Throughout my situation, how can I transition out and be a full-time order or should I sell the company and just focus on being a realtor but reminding you at this point? This company follow worth nothing, right? I'll be lucky. I don't want AC 1000 dollars to buy my company. So that was called 2012 and in 2013. Mid-2013. I just thought you know what, I really want to take the transition and Ian 2013. I decide to stop selling real estate. I think that was The most difficult part you're having a very good income as a salesperson and to become an older. Now a full-time owner, which don't know what to do. Right? And you have to learn everything and but you have no income coming in, right? You didn't really have agents, giving you a split to, to help you operate from your day-to-day operations. So I think that was the biggest turning point and that was the start of what I really think. This is really the beginning of the company. Well, you know, when you're right, that transition must be. So, Because you're making a lot of money on one side and then you're having to forego all of that to start in some ways from scratch, right? And as you say, it's kind of you had to learn how to become a brokerage owner. It's very similar to the restaurant industry, where they say sometimes, you know, there's lifetime servers because it's hard to go. Like they always have cash at the end of the night, right? So it's hard for them to transition out of serving into something else because they're so used to that income coming in, right? That cash coming in. So you transitioned in about 20-30 As you said, you transition from selling to focusing on growing your brokerage. I think you said to me and early conversation that you had about 30 agents at that time. And now in 2021 you have almost 500 agents and you're the fourth largest office by production for Century 21 in the world. And that's out of 14,000, 250 offices, in 86 countries, and I know, you know that status. So congratulations. I'm sure that your For glad that you made that transition back in 2013, but, you know, you continue to make us proud you and everyone at Century 21. Atria. Thank you. Thank you. So before we talk about some of the strategies and tactics that you use to grow your brokerage. I want you to talk about any obstacles that you faced during your journey because as you said, it wasn't always easy, so can you tell me what has been some of your biggest challenges and how you overcame them. Take a few biggest challenge, was number one is how to To become an older, right? Like that, as I mentioned earlier, an owner you have it's a new to me is a complete different business, even though I'm in the same industry, but I was always a salesperson, right? I didn't have to answer to anybody. I think that's I was a big challenges. How do you do everything? How do you give value of your company to agent? That's working for you, right? Like to be honest right now up to 2014. I actually don't know why agents work for you. Right? Like to me is I have no value at the company, but I had to learn it. How? Can I give value to people to join Centre 21? Atria? And I was one challenge. The Second Challenge was like, I'm surrounded by these big, big brokerages from different brands. Some of the largest brokerages in Toronto are around me within a few minutes drive drive. But how do I overcome the other one of the biggest challenge to me was? How do I? Make myself different from my competitors. How do I train agents to sell more homes? How do I become owner to wear multiple hats from the immense? I to the training side, to the production side. How do I do? I think that was a big Challenge and remind you, I was still at a pretty young age in this industry and I think the next challenge was, why should people join someone when he has no experience? He's pretty young guy, I think. What's my one of my biggest challenge? I think to start off the company. So, you know, I know we're going to talk a lot about the things that you do that, you know, provide value to your agent. So, you know, you talked about some of the the challenges that you faced, you know, being a young guy out there and you know, experience running a brokerage, how you going to get agents to join you. How are you going to provide value? How did you overcome some of those obstacles? Like, you know, how did you overcome being young and inexperienced? Did you just kind of keep your head up high and stay focused and, you know, No, look for ways to provide value I think because I started my career as a ritual at a really young age. I think it was always, it's I always learned that it doesn't matter. You're young if you're prepared for everything. If you do in-depth research, you do a lot of training. Like, I think till now, I like to go to a lot of conferences. I see you a lot of times throughout the year. I travel a lot. It's because I like to learn and no matter their there, a new person into this industry or someone that's very successful. I like to learn from that and and absorb the knowledge either. Think about from day one, when I started working till now. I still have that but I think the the goes back to like. How do I click that to the next step is? I think it looks back to my career as a realtor. When I first started. I work for a company that had about I don't know 15 a ginger solar with my Dad's friend, to me was, why did I work there? I was working there because it was family friend. But to me what, there was no value in that company, right? It was especially here. Here's a logo on your business card. And you do work for them. I had to look into at a company perspective If I Was A salesperson. What? I want my company do to help me do that extra transaction. I think that's the key and the objective of being done to me is that you just have to be more prepared. Right? Like I said, you have to do more in-depth research. You find your audience, right? You're being a younger gentleman. You will have younger ages. You were ages. I want to commit want to learn from. You. Was it difficult to hire the agents that were in the business a lot more experience. I think people were shocked when they first join me as like, hey, I'm actually in the business longer than you. But even though I was pretty young, so I think that was also a challenge on the other challenge was, you probably know my company is extremely Multicultural, right? I think that was a big challenge is hey, being a Chinese Canadian in Richmond Hill, Ontario. I didn't want it to hire agent or run a brokerage to to cater towards us, a Chinese Community to me as an agent and they speak English. I should be able to sell them a home, right? Being an owner of I speak English you speak English. What's the difference, who you work for? I think that's also one thing. I'm very proud that were extremely Multicultural at the company. Great and we'll talk a little bit about your culture because I think it goes to that. And you know, it's it's it's very interesting because you know, many times and we talked, you know, Al Lot throughout the year, but you're always talking about value. You always talk about how to provide the most value to your agents and you're always talking about continuous learning to as you say, you go to everything you possibly can because you want to continue to learn the newest Innovations out there, right? You're always looking at doing new things. So that is I think that's a great trade about you. So let's talk about your growth Journey. Now, what do you think has been some of your key ingredients to your growth? I think the combination of organic growth and acquisition. In 2014. I did a lot of recruiting. I still do a lot of recruiting today. I think that's just like an agent Prospect. I always told my agent. If you don't Prospect you can't expect someone to call your Forte. I want to know how same thing at the broker owner. You got a prospect every day for recruiting. So what did a lot of organic growth and what I realized really fast that it will take a long time from 30 agents to? Well. Like I said, my goal was to hit 100 within a year or so. I think that will take a very, very long time and I remember talking to myself. Hey, you know what? I want to get to. 300 agents within five years window, right from 30. I want to go 10 times within three to five years window, and it's going to take me a long time to do a recruiting 11 out of 20 recruiting past couple steps are. First of all, you have to talk to someone by texting or calling to make sure that works come talk to you and the sex doll as you do a recruiting presentation and then all the follow-up, so, hopefully, eventually this guy believes in your value and join you. So that whole process. It's not like a one day thing. Dang, it might take months or years. Sometimes I still hire people. So I looked into acquisition. I'm like, I think acquisition is probably the fastest way to grow a business. So, that was the main thing. I how, how we've grown. So fast was probably through acquisition. So let's talk more than about Acquisitions. Tell us what Acquisitions you made throughout the years. And again, we're going from. Let's just remind everybody that's watching those joining us today. So in 2012, 2013, you're at 30 agents. Now, you're at almost 500. So, you know, it was a very quick, you had a very fast growth Journey. So, tell us what Acquisitions you made and why you made them. I guess the first one, it's not a real acquisition. I mean, maybe I'll show you this. First one first, to me was a brokerage about 30 agents or so, and I heard rumors. They were shutting down for whatever reason, they're wishing Dow. And to me that, you know what, I tried to call the owner before you shut that why don't you sell it to me, but I never found the acquisition, so on. That didn't work. So what I did was I decided to look at that roster about go courage, who was the leaders of those agents in that company, so I went out to find couple Agents from doing Google research and I believe these are, the agents are successful. People would look up to them and that company I targeted those two agents, very hard and convince them to join me and because of that agent joining me, they actually brought along ten agents. So to me that was not a true acquisition, but that was a one-way of I start to look into it more real. Acquisition where brought brings me to 2014. In early, 2014. I purchased a acquired a company with about twenty two agents and I think all the 22 inches and what 19 of them did transfer over and 2014 right after literally like within two weeks of that acquisition and other brokerage I acquire was about 25 agents and all the 25 agents. I say 23 of them actually came over. So those were my first to acquisition in 2014. And I'll show it was. I was scrambling, remind you I won't eat dinner owner real older for a few months now. All right. Oh, I don't have enough support stuff. I don't have now from 30 inches. I'm up to out of the like 70 agents. Can I handle that myself as an order? Did I have the tools to support? I didn't have the office space. So that was an interesting transition in time. So I have to learn on the Fly and then move forward a couple years. So I think we're heading into 2016. 16 and 26 years old. And acquired the Knicks brokerage was about 60 agents. I acquired a brokerage about 60 agents and about almost every single one for a brokerage that join us. And throughout the years. I've always been talk with you about like, so now I'm still talking, probably talking to about 10, to 12, broker owners on a regular basis about acquisition. My biggest acquisition came in late 2018. When I was a brokerage about 150 agents or so. And over 150, about ninety percent of them actually did switch over to our group, which Within One week or so. So, those were the few acquisition deals that I've done in the last few years. So, you know, you just mentioned that you talked to a number of brokerage owners on a regular basis, right? You're always looking for the next acquisition. How do you evaluate if a company is a possibility for an acquisition for you? Like, what are you looking for? First thing I look at is. What type of culture does this company? Right? What type of services do they provide to their agents? The demographics, the age group? I do a lot of research online through Google. I do a lot of research through Instagram, social media to see. You could tell a lot through social media. What type of culture this company is. All right. I think the number one thing. If you have matured this owner, you can work with this toner because who are not position. You need this owner to join your brokerage, right? If the leader about coming, doesn't join you, the other members will not join. So I You got to look at that aspect of the culture. The services, the demographics does it, is it alive with your company and is your company better? I have to believe that your company has to be way better. That's a big selling point obviously, and the next thing is that you start looking at the number of transactions. They do. They look at the fee structures. They offer their agents that in line with what you're doing because you can't really go acquiring company if your fee structure. Is totally opposite ends, right? I think in Toronto, there's a lot of brokerages are what we call a discount brokerages, right? Which I 24th or were not. So there's no way we could acquire a company with that type of mentality. Customs agents will never just will never join you. So I think that's the first step, what I look out. So I do a lot of research before I even make that first phone call to talk to these owners, right? Because to me, there's no point in calling this person and he talks to you and you realize everything's fine lines. There's really no point to For the other thing I do look at is. Do I believe this company have a succession plan is the most of the GTA owners in Toronto. Along these brokerages, are the age of the owners are getting up there. Right? So, but what I've also see, there's a lot of these owners. They don't have the second generation that comes in will help the run the company, right? That's something important. Do they have younger managers or or management stuff that will take over this company. So that's one thing I look at as well. There's really no point to talk to someone of you believe their kid is doing a good job. Will take over the company eventually. Well, and, you know, you talked a little bit about researching, you know, doing your research, kind of studying, you know, various brokerages and just understanding, you know, what type because you're right you can feel culture from social media, you know, so, you know, just trying to figure out what those acquisition opportunities are. Do you just basically research, do your research and kind of figure out who's, you know, around you and then you basically study those brokerages to see if you think they're in line with, you know, with your brokerage. Is that how you You know, opportunities with regards to Acquisitions. Yes, all these years. I compiled this. Right, I start off with my list maybe a few years ago with about 500 brokerages in Toronto, right? It doesn't matter. He's and what then up north or self in Toronto. I start from that list. I think today now I'm down to about a 77 brokerage list that I will die a martyr tree. Some of them, you know, they're not ready to sell yet, but you keep on monitoring their transaction. Anything Changes, right? I think those are the opportunities you unlock that, obviously, all the stuff I mentioned. That's what I monitor on a regular basis. I will look at their sales numbers every single month. I looked at the number of agent count, they have on a monthly basis. I have my little spreadsheet. I look at I think it's also important all of a sudden if this company has 80 agents and all of a sudden with the last month, they lose 10, or they lose 10% of the region. Is there something going on in this company, right? You got to chop on top? I'll buy it right away. I think that's important to always know who you want to acquire why you want to acquire. And and it's just I guess bar - do just make sure you do your competitors. I think so. Basically it sounds like, you know, you have a very targeted list and then you almost have a dashboard. Like you're checking things on a regular basis and then you're looking for any inconsistencies that might flag that something's going on. How do you know what? I'm sure part of it too. Is relationship, building. Do you have a process? Is specifically to keep in touch with these brokerages. Like are you scheduling it in your calendar, you know once every quarter to give them a call or how do you keep that relationship going? All right. I'm not the best person to assist you that. But I do use a CRM system which thankfully from your team provided the CRM system, to my company. Shall we do? Use that to help me find them? Yeah, I think you do see our system and I'll give. Another thing I do is if I'm not hiring anyone organically this month, that's like saying, hey, Steve is pick up the phone, that's called these people that you want to acquire. That's, that's kind of what I do as well, right? So there's no set schedule. I know you're laughing, but you know what? The other thing is that you're always on social media, right? You're always, you know, documenting everything that you're doing and you're showcasing your culture, your showcasing you, and your team, you're showcasing, you know, the development. So, you know, even if If you're not contacting them by telephone, I'm sure that they're seeing you all the time. And so that makes you remain top of mind. Yes, probably. So you've gone through a number of Acquisitions. What is your biggest challenge or worried? When you're acquiring another brokerage, like what's what keeps you up at night when you're making an acquisition? Okay, so I think there's two parts. First part of an acquisition is once you acquire that company, there's no guarantee. Those ages will join you, right? They could join you one day and they leave you the second day. So that entire transitional period has to be seen. As I have to be very smooth for everybody to come in, right? Like, I think for a force except for the Realtors been working for ABC brokerage for the last seven years. They're used to about father used to everything. Every company has a difference. Style, right. So if they come in, you interfere with their listings are not uh, properly. Their offers are wrong. Commissions are not not done properly. Your am in team, has not supported with them, not communicating. I think they will not like that. They will start shopping around. So you need the entire process of an acquisition, to make them feel that nothing actually changed. Besides the brand name, the logo of their other business card, right? So to me was I think it's because I started off with a couple of small brokerages. Prime minister, 150 ages, one. That one was a big concern. I remember the day I we announced that work for this company. We know once we make that announcement, other brokerages will be targeting. Those agents that crazy. The funny thing is before we even make the announcement with that owner, my own agent called me and text me at that. Call me. Actually, I

remember around 9: 22:30

00. He calls me Steven. Why is, why are you at the entire management team at so-and-so brokerage right. Now. Are you by the sky out? I looked at the text on my foreman. I can't reply to this next step. Okay? Be another broker, another age of a company saw me with my whole team walking. And I think that Or start spreading with the fact that even though we didn't announce anything,

but I'm I think 10: 22:50

00. We announced it and my entire team was there ready to meet them? One on one, I brought in about nine staff, my entire management team. We sat down people explain why that we did a whole presentation. Let them understand. The transition is nothing will change every single listing. They had. We already have all the documents. Everything ready to be changed on the real estate board immediate thought day, we had the for sale sign. I'm ready. We have two companies ready to install the size. All the appointments, all the showing instructions, Roots already, pre enter into my system. All they have to do is say, yes. We're joining you and to me it's nothing would have changed. Don't you think? We will have to wait for a few hours work for the board to transfer their license over. So I think it's very very important. It's like our first impression, right? I think it's extremely important. Well, as you said, it's really important to plan out what that Transition looks like, right because again as soon as you as you said, as soon as you make the announcement, then it's like vultures going for those agents. So, it's really important to create that protective shield around them and to have everything ready to be executed right off the bat. Right? And I think that's, you know, that's what's the key. What you just said is you making sure that it becomes a seamless transition to those agents. So and I'm sure that your experience doing, you know, a couple smaller acquisitions. Before you go to the larger acquisition has given you some lessons learned that you can take and apply to that bigger acquisition. So knowing what, you know, now, what are some words of wisdom that you would give someone if they wanted to acquire another brokerage. So what are some of the things? Some of the important things that you learned that you think they should consider? That's a great question. I think is because will be kept by every single, but you cannot acquire every single coming. I talk to you. I've actually turned down. Many deals have I5. Bad deals. Yes. I did know what I was doing at the first couple, but I think you have to learn to walk away from the deal is right, just like what you tell your client to put it out, offer to purchase a home. You've got to learn to walk away because It's great that you're growing your company, but you have to understand if those stages are coming into your company. Will it change your dynamics of your assistant brokerages? Right? Will fit into your company. Can you work with them? I think that's very, very important to. I think you have to be careful who you work with when you're acquiring company, right? Is that really what they're telling you is that you'd accept an exotic? I think that's something. I would love that. Well, and I know that as you said with, The big acquisition like you had your management team come in, but I know that you're always focused and making any new agents feel so welcomed at your brokerage right? You focus on that, you have, you know, meet-and-greets, whether they're you know, virtual during, you know covid. But I know that you're always focused and making sure that from day one, you're making the best impression. They know who's supporting you and that you do they feel comfortable with you as the leadership, as well as the rest of your team. So let's talk now about About some of your organic growth because you since I've known you and I've known you since 2015, you've always been active in recruiting agents. You always want to track your the biggest Ambassador for the Century 21 brand, and for your brand over. Also, what, what attracts agents to your brokerage? I think, what really attracted me. I feel relieved. I'm very different from a lot of owners out there. I'm, I'm very Hands-On. I'm always room to help agents grow their business. Like, I think, what's now, the amount of Agents we have is very hard for me to go call every single one to. Hey, can I help you? Can I help you? But till today, I really believe that. If you, if you give me a call, send me a quick email. I'm always there to help you. You talk to you about your career, how to grow your career. For example, right now. I've been doing this with us for five years, what we call Career Development and few years ago. I started in general to look business waiting for ages. And because we've got some big now, I mean every agent by myself, one on one for 45 and 60, that's 22 an hour and we started back to January back then and I didn't finish till May that's halfway through the year, because it's six a long time. There's only so many. People, you could be her day and then I have a really busy schedule. So, now I've been starting, I started this week already, right? So like this morning, I already met with four of our agents from from nine till noon. Basically, before I jumped on this, this chat and I think that's one thing, right? That's one important things that people under. I hope they see that I'm always here or my team is always here to talk about how we can help you grow your business, right? And then the second thing is, what attracts us attracts people if our culture? I think? Every brokerage say they have a culture. But what is your culture? I think one thing people can see from my company as I like to invest back into my ages. I'm not, I think I hear a lot of time from other Brokers or a lot of HSA. Hey, my broker mix too much money from me. They doesn't. They don't provide me. Any think? They don't even provide me a lunch. You say thank you. Actually talk about that. Like I heard this recently, but one of us are forced on them. Just join me. She's from a couple other brokerages and for the last 10 years. She told me, none of her boss ever treated her for lunch ever. I'm like, what? That doesn't make sense to me about something normal, right me. What do we? What do I mean? By? Giving back to age? I think agent should be rewarded, right? Does it people always report the top tier game capture guys, but to me, it's know, everybody. No matter. The new guy that copter likes yesterday to the guy, that makes a million dollars a year. I think they all should be rewarded. How like, I do a lot of events for them pre covet or even that were trying to do more, right? Like, I think we have to show that they not only giving back as a company to give them my culture or event is also providing the back. What can we were tools? We should invest into them, help them grow their business. I think that's important for us to look at small great. Well, I love that idea about, you know, having those business planning sessions that one-on-one with your agents every year. Specifically, of course, you know, going in, Not a lot of people create business plans. I think they had the intent to create a business plan, but they don't really and to have that support and that accountability to actually put a business plan in place to identify what your goals are for the year. And to actually put a plan and execute that plan. I think is really tremendous and I congratulate you for doing that. And I know that I think in the past conversation, you said, like, you had like 200 spots available to do the one-on-one business planning. So I think that's a great thing to do. So any brokerages out. Are listening. I think this is a great idea for you to take an Implement. So now, what are you doing to attract agents to your business? You know, I know that you're always, you know, on WhatsApp and you're always, you know, connecting through social media. What are you? What are you doing these days to attract new agents to your brokerage. I think I have a different perspective from Florida broker or there's a lot of go Congress spends. A lot of advertising dollars to attract agents, but to me the number one. 20 to attract agents. It's my existing agents to help me recruit, right? If you have a good product, you're a judge will tell their friends or tell other Realtors. They should come talk to us. Right? I've hired probably in the last 34 years agents about 10 ages that join me. It was because their friends at work that and other brokerage said, don't do like, brokerage. I think Steven run the really broke, but you should go too. Talk to you soon. That's a very interesting fact. I hear a lot. It's like, why would you not tell your friend to join your company and you're telling someone to join me, but I don't even know you. But I think that's to me it. The biggest to was really your agents. Right. If you have a good product. You have a good value, you helped. I think agent wants stuff is very simple now. Pick it right agents, no matter your new or your stress. They want goddess to help them how to sell that extra one more deal. How can you generate leads for them? How can you help them grow their business? If I have that product people will come. I think that's one of the things that we do a lot for me to do recruiting. I still use social media a lot. I do D. I'm people are a lot through social media. I do apologize on here. Sometimes I don't we pause because I get so much weakened by sometimes. I just can't see every single best things. I do that a lot. We I think some traditional methods. Is cold calling? We do cold calling a lot. Right? So let's methods of people dropping off a deposit check or marriage or just going out to say, thank you very much for people with deal for us. But that goes a long way. There's a lot of basic stuff that I think doesn't change our business in the face-to-face business, in my opinion, right? So any time you have a chance to meet a realtor, you need to recruit them. I was at the mall at Yorktown last week. It's about four West Hollis. I basically recruited a guy to come talk to him, keeps my license. I recruited him to come talk to us to do a career. Grow up a career seminar to learn about it. I think there's always opportunity for you. And I think we have a good product. I have a very deposits that they leave and very important to make sure they know about your social media, because I think that talks a lot about my company's culture private. Yeah. Well, definitely showcases your culture and as they say marketing word of mouth is the best form of advertising. So as you said, You're always looking at ways to provide value to your agents or agents, see that value that you're providing. And then, of course, that's basically they start to refer their friends and family to your brokerage. So, once that lead comes in, let's just say that, you know, one of your agents have referred another agent to, you know, talk to you. What, how do you get them to that point where you, you know, you have that opportunity to have a meeting to actually them joining your brokerage like what's important? During that Journey? So, in terms of the actual presentation isn't, yes. Yeah, I think, I think the presentation is not one size fits. All right, you have your basic core of what is, what do you provide? Who are you, your identity, all that stuff, but your presentation has to cater towards that individual, right? Just like, when you're selling a house, every seller, every buyer, if it's has different personalities. Our presentation is really, we have a presentation. I've created from agency, right? But you have to understand what a new agent, you technically know, what a new agent always want. They want training. They want support, they don't they want a company that's always there helping them closed transactions or how to handle that objection on the first deal. But that's the in my opinion, a newer agents presentation is pretty much similar always pretty straightforward. If the other agency agents are saying, you know, what, We doing for deals a year, but I want to, I want to go to another country to do 10 deals a year, for the guys that are doing 100. Euros, a year. How can I create a team? How can I do 200 years? Those are the ones that you really have to understand? What are they looking for? You need to understand? Why are they consider leaving The Brokerage in my opinion? For those smokers. Are those agents? It's not a trick. It's not an easy decision. Usually start like a one-day decision. It might take months or years. I've hired people that took a couple of Do you want to join me? But you have to understand what they want and then presented to them. I think that's important. I do a lot of my you create a presentation myself II. Can't say I do every single one. I try to do every single one because I think it's important for them to know why I'm even if I can't do the presentation. I usually try to drop into the meeting and say hi in a meeting room or suffer the or even to you my I'll drop into the gym in my car. Hey, hello. I think they need to know who I am. I right. What I think is very important is the follow-up after that. Right? Like if I'm not there, make sure I make a phone call or send them a message and say, Hey, thank you so much coming in. So, I think that's kind of the direction. Oh, that's that's great. And I think that you, you know, I think that that having that personal touches so important, and I think that, you know, I'm sure that they can feel like we all can't can feel your passion. And Love for what you do and your brokerage and and your you know, the realtors that work for you. I could we can really kind of feel that passion from you and speaking about passion. So we talked a little bit about culture. Right? And you anybody that, you know, is listening, if you, if you haven't been following Stephen Chow, please do on Instagram, Facebook, you know, the culture of your brokerage really comes through in your social media channels. So, how important do you think is culture and retaining your existing a And as well as attracting new agents to your brokerage all extremely important because I think I did a lot of Ages. What wife here is They're just a number in a big brokerage. Who are? They? I'll be honest. I can't, I don't recognize all 500 people. We hire it specially, that was everybody way back before we say no plastic, but more importantly, I think what One power people miss out on like this, if you're if these agents are happy working in a company and they get to meet other co-workers and they don't feel lonely. It's a family to them. People always say, culture. What is a culture? Great, a culture is not a older. Say, this is my culture. You need your team to buy into that culture, right? Think about it, if agent a is so happy about they met agent be in this company. What that agent, a least. Would they really believe? That's like a breakup with not only with the company but also with the flaps, right? I think a lot of companies or lot of angels. We are that they're just out of brokerage. They have no friends. They have no co-workers for they have co-workers. They just don't know them to them. Is I have no relationship to this country. So I try to create a lot of events, right? Or actually there's a hashtag. We used a lot called patreon life or at least I used a lot. Try to create a culture by creating a lot of events such as like some of the stuff that we do is people find it silly. If I didn't, maybe find it. Pathetic, maybe I have a donors like really successful owners, like know. That company is a joke what they're doing, but to me is like maybe that y that's why my sales numbers higher that you respect so much. But like I said, we get back toward a just like we want them like that

for the past, what? 20 months of: 38:08

. There's a lot of things we couldn't do so, well, what we've been doing for at the beginning of covid. We did all my karaoke singing. You were part of that, right? We did. It looks in contests. We play games online, right? We start to do. Which one thing, I really was really difficult for us when we hire new people back then, but we hire young people. We host small little party or group little events, right? With the ping-pong events. We get a pool hall. We went to a pool to play some events. We did a few times paper. I think I was fun, people get loose. After a couple beers, people intend to open up, everybody comes from here, but because of cold, it was very hard to bring that culture to our agent. So I started to do a lot and greet in the parking. Right through social distancing wear a mask. The weather was nice in the summer. In Toronto. We did that. We could trainings outside but other stuff up, we start to do. Exactly. Like, you know, what? When everything was a page count for a little bit lower. I did a ceiling effect. We rewarded our top 21 agents on on a yacht sailing in the summer, right? We I invited the top all the ages. I gotta admit your award from the mid-year of sending a war, every single one. We invited them to go to a golf course you have much family, right? So I had I tried everything on that menu at the golf course. So every time I met him deeper, we didn't want it was kind of talk. We don't want 20, 30 people, coming up because if I have 30 agents showing up to one event. I lose the connection of talking to them. I lose the connection of, as you don't want, table could be pretty long. It's hard to talk to the guy. When you have 10 people, everybody's going to open up a little bit, talk more. So those are some of the stuff that we did last year. I think we did a very cool, very different virtual Christmas party. If you've never seen it, go to our YouTube page. I think it's pretty different from the law of companies that we did pre cold read. We do a lot of different events. We did like I do we do challenges out there way. We did the key key challenge with these. The I don't remember the Drake one, the dancing when we get that power. Enjoy all these videos online for you guys to watch on YouTube. I think that creates a culture, right people, beat friends. Some of these are quite silly, right? We did karaoke contest before, right? I dressed up as Michael Jackson left of the nicest looking, Michael Jackson, a retry. But to be passed a culture, people feel part of the family. They want to stay, right? Because I think sales is important. But are they, are they happy working with us? Can we please? Everyone probably not. But I think that's who I am. That's who I am. Well, you know, I think I went on and off. No, no, no. That's good. You know, and, you know, when you talk about Atria life, right? As to me, if I was to describe a true life, I would say, you know, you know, doing kind of fun things like, things that put a smile on your face and sure, they might be Corky or they might be different, but they put a smile on your face, right? And, and the other thing I think, Ink that you demonstrate, is that it's okay to be yourself, right? You don't have to be a certain way and stand a certain way and but it just like, be yourself have fun, you know, let go. That's what I think everyone needs and, you know, during covid that was even more important because we were all kind of fearful. So, you know, to make someone laugh is so great. I think so. I really I loved your Christmas party. It was it was so great watching that virtually. So I know culture is a big part of what you do. I'm also know that training is also really important. For it to you, you know again and keeping your existing agents making them as productive as possible because as you say you're always looking at how an agent can go from five, you know, five transactions to 10 transactions. And also, you know, I'm sure that all the training, you do attracts new agents. So what are you doing? Like, what training do you provide? Because I know I see it all the time on social media are always posting like a weekly schedule. So talk a little bit about training. I'm so we've been doing tutoring five days a week, right? We've always been doing training's all these years. I think not because of covid a lot. It's more online to laughs. It's a lot easier for us to have speakers. Just jump on a resume to do a training or even for ourself. But looking back in 2016. We've actually already started do a lot of our trainings virtually. We do a lot of recording. So when covid hit whenever you think I'm doing Zoom or doing video to me, was it's nothing special. I've been doing that, which I would probably say 90% of our trades for still in person. We still do. We do we do for the past two years. We probably do five trainings per week. Mondays is always about technology. Training. Tuesday is usually hosted by myself or lawyers to talk about some relevant stuff in our industry. That's probably catered towards everybody in our company who mother you're new or experienced. Wednesday and Thursdays are more catered sport than you are agent or less experienced, you weren't you in the industry. It's Hands, all about prospecting for Wednesday and Thursdays and Fridays. We actually have one of our major Ally that does, what we call a tremendous. It's a very short segment. It's on new technologies, new tools, new things. That we think you guys should know about, for example, whatever tools that this came out. Hey, we think you guys should look at you that we read this article online. That's basically our minimum trainings Monday. So far they write and from time to time we'll for win. We have guest speakers coming in for Developers. Lawyers, but minimum is to me, is five trains a week, every year we do. Prospecting bouquet, I host a myself. Sometimes he was like, hey, do you have experience as a trainer? I could tell you, if you ask me the same question few years ago. I don't, I'm not a trainer. I'm not a real estate coach, but I like to share my experience, my journey, what I hear from my ages to teach my agents, what how to cell phones in the real world, right? So I do the prospecting Phuket myself. It's usually three full days. I would do it three times a year in q1 summer, and We usually do it a thought. We're actually launching a new program next year. The idea is three full days as well and now doing the new construction. Well, so we're dividing, of course in there too. Half of it will be cleared towards the resale side and getting listings. The other side of so many hey, how can we help our agents sell more developments in Toronto? Right? I think that's a big part of our business in Toronto. We're actually putting together a three and a half three to four days full training manual which were going to be Now, sing it can generate Origins and the idea to do it three times a year as well, and we have our trainings. We have a website, what we call a true Learning Academy, all the videos we do, it's there. Sometimes. I just do videos about trainings about different topics. 20 minutes. I don't need an audience. I just record myself. Is this cool talking for like 20 minutes, right? So I think we offer a lot. I hear a lot from other ages. They join a brokerage, they say they are training, for example trainings, but there is no training. I'm telling you. I have trainings. It's posted live on page on our page. So there's really not for us to hide it. It's there, but we don't do it December January, but that's okay because they have campus 21 dot TV and c21 University in january/february. So they're never allowed to have perfect. You could do the training for me. We talked a little bit about the tips that you would give someone if they were looking at an acquisition for they're broke. George, what are some of the tips that you would give brokerage owners if they want to recruit more agents to their business, like, if someone's kind of being a little bit stagnant and they haven't really been actively recruiting. What are some things that you like? Some of the key, top three tips, you'd give them. You told me to give away my secrets away a couple. The number one tip. Is you guys do it yourself. You can't rely on your staff. You can rely on your management can do it. If you're the leader you don't want to do recruiting. No one can follow you and do it, right. If your own company and you don't want to do it. But what's going to be there? I think that's the biggest of I would give you got to do all your own, right? I guess if I have to give you a second tip is Understand what's your value? Don't say you have this value. You got a movie pack it up. It's it's very easy for someone to realize you don't offer that stuff after they tore, right? So there's no point in saying you have all this and you don't. So you have to understand. What is your value and you have to execute it or else your retention is, it's going to be, it's not going to exist. I think that's a, that's a great tip. And I think it's a great tip for, you know, a 2022. Resolution. If you haven't done it already, make sure you kind of know what your value proposition is, right? And not only be clear on what value you provide agents. But also, as you say execute on that value right, making sure that they know that is there for them and that you continue to provide value. We talked a little bit about, you know, the last 18 months and how you've done some different things. Because of some of the, you know, restrictions we've been operating in lately. How have you changed, or have you changed, how you manage your brokerage and engage with your ATV agents? Like, has that shifted. Are you going back to some of the more traditional, as you say, in-person meetings? Is it a hybrid? What is this looking? Like? Now? I think it's about hybrid one, right? I still prefer to do a lot more in face-to-face, but I think in Toronto, there's still a lot of restrictions and the numbers are right there. So it's a challenge. I think the biggest challenge for us is, the people are join our company since covid started right there. I honestly don't think they feel the culture of my company because they haven't seen. You haven't even seen me, but it's taken by Tbilisi me on the computers Street. I think that's been a challenge. Is how do we get that message to them? This is who we are. So we're really looking forward to our Christmas party, that's coming up in a couple weeks from now, obviously with the restrictions. We can't host a full-blown party, but because there's restrictions on numbers. But I really think it's been challenging, but we have to adapt. I think as a business owner, you, I think one thing I've learned of Culvert is you cannot sit around and wait, I think you've got to, you got to, you got to really be active and see, how can you look for all the things that can happen and analyze? What can you do? If this happens, what you have to be proactive, get ready for you can't just so you know what? Cross my fingers and pray. Nothing happens to me, but it's been challenging but I think we I think we're careful as a industry. I believe that we I think are indeed has been very successful. I think we're very thankful for that. But it's been challenging. When you have staff that were set from covid. If you have stuff back, we're scared of working you. The other biggest challenge for us was I would really I was very strict on our covid, protocols, right? I technically, shut down the office. The whole time of coal, but until Thanksgiving I open that back up the people like that know, I know we got a lot of pushback, but to me was that's managing in my opinion because one of my things, what I looked at was, if one of my staff support staff is sick, in my opinion, the entire competition that if I get sick, the entire can be to a point is everybody has to work from home. How you can do that? So I think in general, those are a manager. I think there is great too much. Well, you know, when we started, you know, discussing when you transition compelling to, you know, really kind of running and your brokerage back in and 2013, you know, we're in 2021. So hasn't even been 10 years. It's been eight years. You've been on quite the journey during that time. What keeps you focused and motivated and determined. And because if I was going to describe you, I would say, you know, Focus determine Relentless. You know, how do you keep up your like driving your passion and your your focus to move forward? I think a lot of people say they don't like losing, they don't like to be second. I could tell you, I really hate being second. I think everybody in my office, every time these award comes up from Century 21, Canada from the international, I get really upset if I don't move up. Like if you ask me the same question five years ago. I was like, you know what, I just want to make it into the top 100 at Century 21 within five six. Ears from being, I don't know where I was at 5,000 ranking in the country or something in the world. But not, as I said, we're number for the world, but I hate that number. I've been stuck at that number for you and a half this year. I thought I was doing amazing. I still suck at number four so that motivates them. But to me, it's like people say they don't like losing. You can't just say they Germans like I want to go up. What what what can you do to me is very simple. You've got it in our industry variable. So boho, right. That's how you move up your records. How do I sell more homes? I Atria provide better tools for my agent. What can I do? So all that to me is I think that number motivates me every day. Like I actually I think I share this with you. I stare at these numbers every single day. And if you asked me today down to the dollar, how far back I am from number one. I actually could tell you that number because I stare at it every day and looking at it motivate you to get it really bothers me. Nobody people say like, like, like I think we all want to provide to our family, right? I think that's number one goal, right? You want to focus you want to be motivated to provide to your family, right? But one thing I've learned from my dad, my mom and actually my grandfather is you have to be hard-working, right? I think that's that's one of the biggest characters I person take I'm extremely hardworking. And I really the type of guy I won't stop until I reach something, right? That's me, but I don't know that it did. I actually you did you're always going for gold, right? Always going for gold. So. Well, it's funny because when I, you know, I can go on Instagram and I can see her and go. Oh Global numbers are out. Stephen just have a couple more questions left, but knowing what you know. Now, if you could go back and send a message to your young self. What message would that be? If you decide to become a broker owner stopped selling real estate in because you cannot do both by faith, right? I don't think it's possible. No matter how good you are. You can only service your agents or service your body's itself. It's not possible. Right? So you're if you do both, you're kind of doing it half way, right? You're not giving it your all. So that's that's a great. That's a great message. And what is, as we wrap up here? What is the biggest challenge you've ever faced in your life that ended? Being a blessing in disguise. I think was I was too young. I might be around 20. I was making pretty good money as a realtor, right? And I the obstacles I faced 20 was, I just an obstacle. I spend a lot of money II. Your 20, your friends are none of your friends really have money. You go out, you pay for everything to me, money with easy as a realtor. I got so point. I bought a fancy car idea. Where I bought my first BMW. When I was 28, you start spending money like crazy because you said making money was is easy. I should say, right? I got to a point around 2020. Is like, you know what? Oh, I'm not selling anymore. No one's buying from me. I'm in. I wasn't that I was, I'll be honest with you. I was in a lot of debt by. I maxed out my credit cards. I had a car BMW dot. I had to I was I think I would like one or two months default. I had my bought my first property office to me was I turned around, really fast, probably within a year and realize that money is not easy. And At that moment. I realized how you know what whatever my family occurring to my doctor. My grandfather taught me. My money doesn't fall from the sky, your business of the wrong side. You want to be successful, you want to live a certain lifestyle, you want provide your cup. You've got a work, you got to be hard-working. I sold to me, is I did to that stage that I really had - ballot in my bank account, right? Like some people do some, people think, I'm sure a lot of people think I come from a rich, family know, my parents who immigrated in the seminaries and my My dad worked three jobs who raised me and my sister they are not rich family. Right? So two people that I really started from I was there up. Don't tell me you have no money then go go work. So I think that was to me. It's like I'm glad I have it at 20, not about. That's right. Yeah. I think it's a great. It's a great lesson learned that you got to work hard to see the success, and you really have done that. So, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. How can people get a hold of you, Steven? If they want to connect with you, what exactly is Instagram, right? You can follow my company at c21. Atria or follow my account at poker, child dot C, 21 and this fall with their or visit my website and you want to sell your company. Give me a call to, right. That's great. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. You again, you are just the best Ambassador for the Century. 21, brand you, make us all proud. You have come such a far way, and we just Continue to support you and tear you as you move forward in your career, and you know, congratulations for to all of your management team and all of your Realtors at c21. Ha you're all doing just an amazing job. So, thank you so much. No. Thank you. A lot is. Thanks to you choke. Oh, thank you very much for the you and your teammate head offices. Thank you. Thanks, Steven. Thanks for taking time. Take care. Bye. Bye.